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Post by Big on Apr 1, 2007 13:50:18 GMT -5
oc,
In socialism/communism nobody FORCED political prisoners to speak out against the government.
So, why is it that abusing the urge to speak out is evil but abusing the urge to buy things is not?
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oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
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Post by oc on Apr 1, 2007 14:37:16 GMT -5
Big, Regarding "nobody FORCED political prisoners to speak out..." I don't follow you, are you arguing the political prisoners got what they deserved and that they shouldn't have criticized the government?
Also, where did I say speaking out is evil? You seem to make that point, not me. By all means criticize consumerism, where do you get the idea I support it?
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Post by satiev1 on Apr 1, 2007 15:06:49 GMT -5
Germany was looking an excuse to start war. The assasination was just a triggering point to continue expansion. The assassination was done by a Serb and then Germany jumps in and wants to conquer all of Europe once again.
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Post by matclone on Apr 1, 2007 15:14:50 GMT -5
I don't think too many countries had good reasons for entering WWI. To me, it's a classic f*k story where leaders everywhere made bad decisions resulting in death on an unprecedented scale.
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oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
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Post by oc on Apr 2, 2007 17:47:23 GMT -5
Germany was looking an excuse to start war. The assasination was just a triggering point to continue expansion. The assassination was done by a Serb and then Germany jumps in and wants to conquer all of Europe once again. Germany didn't become a country till 1880 I believe, WWI started in 1917 (?) when between 1880 and 1917 did Germany try to conquer the world?
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Post by Donkey on Apr 2, 2007 18:34:37 GMT -5
let's see if satiev can answer...
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Post by matclone on Apr 2, 2007 18:43:46 GMT -5
Did you have anything to add to the discussion, or are you just trying to bait Saitev like trolls do?
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Post by Donkey on Apr 2, 2007 18:55:23 GMT -5
no, OC made a very interesting point, and being cognizant of satiev's (and your) rhetoric, I wondered if he would have an intelligent response.
I'm waiting. How you call me a 'troll' and defend satiev with a straight face speaks volumes of you political leanings and agenda, to be honest.
Discuss.
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Post by satiev1 on Apr 2, 2007 20:05:34 GMT -5
Germany was looking an excuse to start war. The assasination was just a triggering point to continue expansion. The assassination was done by a Serb and then Germany jumps in and wants to conquer all of Europe once again. Germany didn't become a country till 1880 I believe, WWI started in 1917 (?) when between 1880 and 1917 did Germany try to conquer the world? Ever heard of the Prussian Empire? It consisted of Germans. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrussiaThe Prussian Empire which was ruled by ethnic Germans was fighting for control of Europe against other European powers since the 14th century.
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Post by Donkey on Apr 2, 2007 20:09:27 GMT -5
ok thank you .
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oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
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Post by oc on Apr 3, 2007 18:45:09 GMT -5
Actually Satiev, you're wrong. Prussias ( as implied by the name itself, Russia with a P in front) population is Slavic! So asserts Sir Karl Popper in, The Open Society and it's Enemies. I believe this was declared in the Berlin Treaty of 1830. Popper cited this to show the absurdity of racial purity, that is, the group most identified as the most German Germans, the Prussians, are Slavs! I'll look around and see if I can find the book and I'll cite the footnote.
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oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
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Post by oc on Apr 3, 2007 18:55:51 GMT -5
I may be wrong about the year, but the rest is right, Prussian = Slav! So, Satiev argues his own people are war mongers!
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Post by Big on Apr 3, 2007 19:04:23 GMT -5
The monk Martin Luther wrote his 95 Theses questioning the Roman Catholic Church in 1517, thereby sparking the Protestant Reformation. A separate Lutheran church was acknowledged as the new sanctioned religion in many states of Germany in 1530. Religious conflict led to the Thirty Years' War (1618–1648), which devastated German lands. The Peace of Westphalia (1648) ended religious warfare in Germany, but the empire was de facto divided into numerous independent principalities. From 1740 onwards, the dualism between the Austrian Habsburg Monarchy and the Kingdom of Prussia dominated German history. In 1806, the Imperium was overrun and dissolved as a result of the Napoleonic Wars.[7] Restoration and revolution (1814–71) Main article: German Confederation Following the fall of Napoleon Bonaparte, the Congress of Vienna convened in 1814 and founded the German Confederation, a loose league of 39 sovereign states. Disagreement with restoration politics partly led to the rise of liberal movements, demanding unity and freedom. These, however, were followed by new measures of repression on the part of the Austrian statesman Metternich. The Zollverein, a tariff union, profoundly furthered economic unity in the German states. During this era, many Germans had been stirred by the ideals of the French Revolution and nationalism became a more significant force, especially among young intellectuals. For the first time, the colours of black, red and gold were chosen to represent the movement, which later became the national colours.[8] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany
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oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
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Post by oc on Apr 3, 2007 19:13:17 GMT -5
Big, So?
The German Reformation was a massive land grab led by German Princes, Luther was their front man, the muscle at the time, The Holy Roman Empire, was fighting Muslims (as it always did) and protecting Europe, it didn't commit resources to crush the Princes (figured Protestants were better than Muslims). Bismark created the German nation and it was late in the 19th century (1880 ish). Your own posts says, "German Confederation, a loose league of 39 soverign states."
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oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
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Post by oc on Apr 3, 2007 19:15:37 GMT -5
Big is a war monger!
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