|
Post by bonniej2 on Mar 31, 2007 13:32:37 GMT -5
I always thought Bush liked Christianity because of the get-out-of-jail-free aspect of it. You can screw up real bad, and boom - forgiven! Tom DeLay too.
|
|
oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
|
Post by oc on Mar 31, 2007 20:58:59 GMT -5
All socialists have as their objective a "new man" a master race; even the commies Big is so fond of had as their objective the creation of "Soviet Man." International socialist (commie) National socialist (Nazi) it really doesn't matter, both advocate using the coercive power of the state to change man to conform to their respective ideology.
Regarding Hitler and Catholicism, he never won the Catholic vote in any German state (see Leftism Revisted for a demographic breakdown of Hitler's electoral support), he was elected by the Lutheran vote. He even invaded Poland on Luther's birthday, not surprising as Luther was a early German nationalist. The German invasion of Poland is the start of WWII.
As to the war like nature of the German's, history shows this to be false. While a warrior culture they were never expansionistic, they actually won the battle of Waterloo (Blucher), and saved Europe from Napolean, not the Brits. WWII is not indicative of German history, they do screw up a lot (who doesn't) but they're not a expansionistic power.
If you pick the right point in time you could argure the following peoples are war mongers:
The Irish - Always invading Alba (Scotland)
The Scots - Always invading England
The English - Invading everyone
The French! As nasty as the Brits under Napolean!
The Spanish - The New World
|
|
|
Post by satiev1 on Mar 31, 2007 22:43:59 GMT -5
It was the defeat of the Napolean by the Russians that destroyed his empire and led to waterloo. Prussia was under control of Napolean until the devastating Russian defeat. They fought in waterloo because they were under control of the French. No shit they're gonna fight. Napolean sent 500,000 troops and came back with only 25,000. Prussia was under the control of Napolean during the invasion. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon's_Invasion_of_Russia Oh I guess you're right World War 1 and 2 which were both started by the Germans are two minor wars which didn't inflict that much damage. Around 10 million in world war 1 and 100 million in world war 2 which were both started by the agressive Germans in hope of expanding their empire.
|
|
oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
|
Post by oc on Apr 1, 2007 9:28:25 GMT -5
Satiev, Knocking over strawmen is beneath you. I never said:
1. The Russians didn't stop Napoleon, I merely pointed out the Germans under Blucher defeated him at Waterloo. Don't really understand the point of Prussia being under Napoleons control, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
2. What is your understanding of the beginning of WWI? There was no march into Poland like event that started it.
3. I cited the GERMAN invasion of Poland as the start of WWII, I know what started the war, I merely pointed out that this is atypical behavior.
No comments about socialist using the coercive power of the state to "create" new men, why is that?
|
|
|
Post by Big on Apr 1, 2007 9:42:19 GMT -5
Russians did not just "stop Napoleon". Vietnam stopped Americans American colonies stopped Great Britain but Russians destroyed Napoleon and his Army. After Russia, Napoleon was finished. RUSSIA SAVED EUROPE FROM NAPOLEON!
Everyone knows invading Russia means an end to the invading country as we know it.
|
|
|
Post by Big on Apr 1, 2007 9:58:32 GMT -5
Over the course of little more than a decade, the armies of France under his command fought almost every European power and acquired control of most of continental Europe by conquest or alliance. The disastrous invasion of Russia in 1812 marked a turning point. Following the Russian campaign and the defeat at Leipzig in October 1813, the Sixth Coalition invaded France, forcing Napoleon to abdicate in April 1814. He was exiled to the island of Elba. Shortly afterward, he staged a comeback known as the Hundred Days (les Cent Jours), but was defeated at Waterloo on 18 June 1815. Napoleon spent the remaining six years of his life on the island of St. Helena in the Atlantic Ocean under British supervision. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon
|
|
|
Post by matclone on Apr 1, 2007 11:56:16 GMT -5
All socialists have as their objective a "new man" a master race;
I'll comment. Total bullshit. You seem to understand little about socialism, OC, except as a name for some unredeemable opponent of yours.
both advocate using the coercive power of the state to change man to conform to their respective ideology.
I'm a good consumer. I buy and buy and buy because it's only natural to possess "things" (I got my eye on a bigger and better television next). I'm limited only by my income plus accumulated debt. What ideology am I? Who is promoting this ideology, and how is it transmitted?
|
|
|
Post by Big on Apr 1, 2007 12:17:59 GMT -5
Anybody that watches television or listens to the radio knows how capitalism coerces you to listen to buying options in the manner of COMMERCIALS.
|
|
|
Post by Big on Apr 1, 2007 12:26:41 GMT -5
In the car industry, why the need to make new models every two years? People always feel the need to have the latest model.
|
|
|
Post by matclone on Apr 1, 2007 12:43:56 GMT -5
Everyone knows invading Russia means an end to the invading country as we know it.
LOL.
|
|
|
Post by matclone on Apr 1, 2007 12:49:28 GMT -5
What is your understanding of the beginning of WWI? There was no march into Poland like event that started it.
Most historians identify the beginning of the war as the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand.
|
|
|
Post by Big on Apr 1, 2007 12:53:27 GMT -5
Hitler participated in WWI as well. He vowed to seek revenge after Germany's defeat. WWI and WWII exhibited similar conquest type of ambitions by Germany.
|
|
|
Post by matclone on Apr 1, 2007 13:05:06 GMT -5
Arguably, one world war led to another. The "victors" in WWI, punished Germany over and over, leading to the conditions that developed into WWII.
|
|
oc
Round of 12
Posts: 294
|
Post by oc on Apr 1, 2007 13:27:15 GMT -5
Matclone, You're correct, the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand is generally credited as being the event that led to WWI. It wasn't done by "the Germans" so the Germans can't be blamed for starting WWi. The Versailes treaty punished Germany to such an extent inflation spun out of control and people starved in the streets. This did lay the groundwork for the rise of Hitler and WWII. On the upside, we didn't make the same mistake after WWII, though Moganthau (sp) advocated the de-industrialization of Germany and the death of millions Marshall won out and peace has reigned for 60 years.
Regarding your refutation of my point regarding socialist wanting to use the coercive power of the state to create a "new man," simply claiming "total bullshit" doesn't do it. I also don't follow your point regarding consumerism/debt and what ideology you profess. If you don't like consumerism, don't practice it, work towards a more ascetic lifestyle, that's what I'm doing.
|
|
|
Post by matclone on Apr 1, 2007 13:41:01 GMT -5
You attribute far-reaching and bad intent to one ideological view (socialism)--one that all good men should presumably fear. I'm just pointing out there are other ideologies running around our society (e.g., consumerism)--perhaps with greater influence.
|
|