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Post by Flop the Nuts on Mar 14, 2007 13:02:41 GMT -5
By the way, I'm not gay.
Just wanted to clarify that...
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Post by Big on Mar 14, 2007 13:06:35 GMT -5
Atheists are religious people that denounce all magical stuff in true religion. That is the way I was taught in Soviet Union. Soviets welcomed the moral issues of religion but denounced all the fooling people with the magical stuff.
I base morality of sexual conduct on the main useful value, procreation. Since Nature DID NOT intend for gays to procreate, the act is immoral.
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Post by Flop the Nuts on Mar 14, 2007 13:09:15 GMT -5
So, making love into a kleenex is immoral to you? How do you live with yourself?
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Post by Big on Mar 14, 2007 13:11:51 GMT -5
If you think of the opposite sex while doing so, it is fine. If you think of homosexual acts, then its immoral.
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Post by quicksingle on Mar 14, 2007 13:37:27 GMT -5
masturbation is immoral too Big, according to the Bible.
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Post by Big on Mar 14, 2007 13:40:47 GMT -5
masturbation is immoral too Big, according to the Bible. Well, I never said I agreed with everything religion teaches........
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pm01
Round of 12
Posts: 342
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Post by pm01 on Mar 14, 2007 13:44:49 GMT -5
"Euthanasia is immoral."Now you've hit a nerve. I am vehemently in favor of euthanisia where appropriate, and believe that it is reprehensible that suffering should be prolonged in a terminal patient for religious or quasi-moral reasons. The right to death is as sacred as the right to life. I will be away from my computer for much of today, but will respond to any replies as soon as I can. One day this past week I had the occasion to witness two tragedies in one short day. In one room of the neonatal intensive care unit I stood above a tiny bed watching a newborn baby struggle for life. Due to an anomaly she was forced into an emergency premature birth. She was born at 26 weeks gestation but due to the anomaly she was actually developmentally only 22 weeks. At a mere 13 ounces she is the tiniest child I have ever saw. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that her entire right leg was shorter and smaller in diameter than my little finger. She was bright red and despite the expected pulmonary problems she appeared perfectly formed. Those tiny toes, fingers, and nose were all there. She had facial expressions of frustration as she kicked her left leg against the clear plastic wrap that was stretched across the top of her bed to trap heat near her. At one time she pressed her foot against the wrapping and I could plainly see the bottom of her foot painted with the tiniest of creases smaller and finer than an eyelash. She was intubaded and hopelessly struggled against the plastic tube that fed her oxygen. She was opening and shutting her mouth, chewing and at one moment I even saw her pushing against it with her miniature, miniature tongue. Seven hours later she lost her battle. It was over; she was dead. It was a tragic end to this baby’s life, and a tragic day for her young parents. Coincidentally at almost the same hour one floor below the NICU another woman died. Her death came one day short of her 100th birthday. What’s noteworthy is that she has been lying in a vegetative state from suffering a catastrophic stroke three years earlier. I saw the family of this woman finally allowing their grief to bubble up. It appeared as emotional of a moment as the parents of the newborn. I imagine some of the long lines carved into their faces were a direct result of postponed grief. As I lay back in my bed at the end of the day I thought about these two lives. I thought about the tragedy of one human who by no fault of her own could not live, and another who could not die. I decided there are no answers for some of my questions. I also decided that time does not heal everything. As a matter of fact, time probably does not heal a damn thing, it only makes pain more tolerable. So, I guess my rambling point is, that as caring and loving people we must find the common ground to stand on together. We need to find the spot where right-to-life and right-to-die can coexists. As Spider has said more eloquently than I ever could, somewhere before a puddle of coagulated cells forms human life I can understand it coming to an end. But beyond that moment, wherever it is, at least for me, it is dreadfully wrong to end. I saw 22 weeks and it has had a profound impact on me. At the other end of the spectrum, we must have the collective humanity to allow suffering people the right to choose death over a senseless life. The issues are difficult and even great, but I think if we really try, I mean really try, we are capable of figuring it out.
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Post by quicksingle on Mar 14, 2007 13:50:39 GMT -5
masturbation is immoral too Big, according to the Bible. Well, I never said I agreed with everything religion teaches........ just pointing out the hypocrisy here.
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Post by sgallan on Mar 14, 2007 13:51:54 GMT -5
PM -
That was an amazingly good post.
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Post by sgallan on Mar 14, 2007 13:52:51 GMT -5
By the way, I'm not gay.
Just wanted to clarify that...You know.... you are kind of cute when clarifying.
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Post by Big on Mar 14, 2007 13:55:02 GMT -5
It has been proven that, at least for males, health problems can arise if there is no sexual activity performed for a long period. Since good people are very moral and should have sex only with the ones they love and hopefully married to, masturbation is a useful practice for those that don't have a loved partner of the opposite sex.
If the issue is between masturbation and health problems, I think the right thing to do is to masturbate.
There, I went as far as I am willing to go here!
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Post by Spider on Mar 14, 2007 13:55:15 GMT -5
A response to Spider's comments, There is a difference between not having kids because a couple chooses not to have them or not being able to have kids due to some physical malfunction and due to NATURAL INABILITY (homosexual) where Nature has not intended for two individuals to procreate as A GENERAL RULE. No one says two men or two women can't be close friends. However, sexual conduct is another story and as a result quite immoral. Euthanasia. If the person is hooked up to a machine or to life saving medication, euthanasia is not needed. Just unhook the machine or life saving medication, give them pain killers and they will die. The kind of euthanasia I consider immoral is when a person says: "Doc, I don't want to live, give me a pill to die". The bad consequences just outweigh the good. What's the difference between the NATURAL INABILITY of homosexuals to have children and the NATURAL INABILITY of someone born sterile to have children? Okay, we're splitting hairs because healthy, totally funtional homosexual sex still can't produce offspring, but that doesn't make it immoral. Are you saying that some masturbation fantasies are immoral and some are okay? I will agree that some weird thoughts may indicate a psychological disorder, but thought crimes and real actions are so far apart that we shouldn't be wasting our time or religious/moral indignation worrying about what people fantasize. Regarding euthanasia: when someone says, "Doc, give me a pill because I don't want to live," the doctor must consider whether this is a frivolous request (the guy's hamster just died) or a reasonable one (the guy is in excruciating, unmanageable pain). That's why I qualified my original post by adding "where appropriate." There aren't always machines that can be shut off. Often proactive measures must be taken to relieve the terminally ill and suffering patient, and sublethal doses of pain medication will not control the pain, nor will they kill the patient.
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Post by Flop the Nuts on Mar 14, 2007 14:12:03 GMT -5
"If the issue is between masturbation and health problems, I think the right thing to do is to masturbate."
Big, you ought to make that your signature, or have it made into a bumper sticker or something.
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Post by Big on Mar 14, 2007 14:53:27 GMT -5
Spider posted:
I think most people who get married believe that it will be for life, but people make well-intentioned mistakes and should not receive a life sentence for them. Divorce shouldn't be a quick fix, but it should be an option.
I don't believe most people marry with a presumption that this spouse will be the one for life.
Why? Well, if you marry someone because they have a lot of money or a good job as the BIGGEST issue, you are bound to be disappointed when that person loses a lot of money or the job.
If you marry because you feel lonely or because you just like the way someone looks, you are bound to be disappointed when you become more socially fulfilled or that person ages and is not as pretty anymore.
Bottom line is , you have to accept the person, not his bank account or any of the superficial or temporary qualities and conditions and MANY people cannot do that.
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Post by Spider on Mar 14, 2007 15:03:53 GMT -5
Big,
I don't agree with your cynical belief that most people don't intend to marry for life, but that's not a major issue for me so I won't belabor it. Euthanasia is a big issue for me, so I would enjoy hearing your reactions to my last post.
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