Post by ideamark on Dec 26, 2006 17:41:00 GMT -5
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Q&A With Nolan Zavoral, Author of A Season on the Mat
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Email this article
12/26/2006 2:30:00 PM
By Matt Krumrie – TWM Freelance Writer
A Season on the Mat is widely considered one of the greatest wrestling books in history. Author Nolan Zavoral wrote the book, which focuses on the 1996-97 Iowa Hawkeyes national championship team. That season is also Dan Gable’s last as head coach of the Hawkeyes.
Now, culminating with this year being the 10-year anniversary of that season, Zavoral has put together an Afterword chronicling the developments of many of the main characters in the ten years since that season. The book has been re-released in paperback and is available on Amazon.com, and at bookstores like Barnes and Nobles and Borders.
The cover, featuring the same intense shot of Gable, looks splashier this time around, with reviewers' remarks sprinkled into the makeup, and with a new Afterword noted on the cover. This story sponsored by:
Omega Sports Products
Get your custom team gear from us!!!
1-800-435-8801
“The Afterword is lengthy, because I had to update readers on Gable's life since he turned the team over to Zalesky, and then last spring, jumped back on board after Tom Brands became head coach,” says Zavoral, who lives in St. Paul and in addition to working as a writer, teaches writing courses at the Loft Literary Center in Minneapolis. “In those nine years away from coaching, Gable considered a run for Iowa governor; lobbied national lawmakers on behalf of the sport; conducted clinics and accepted speaking engagements around the country; had more surgery done on his arthritic hips; worked as an assistant to the Iowa men's athletic director, and kept close tabs on the Hawkeye wrestling team from his roost a floor above the wrestling room.”
Zavoral, a wrestling fan as well as an author, was excited for the opportunity to reconnect with the many who helped make the book possible
“Working on the book again was doubly delightful because my editor was a former high school wrestler (Jack Sallay) on the Eastern seaboard who appreciated both Gable and amateur wrestling,” said Zavoral.
Earlier this fall Zavoral commented on Gable.
“Few know how to peak a team like Gable,” said Zavoral. “(He) continues to fascinate me, as does wrestling.”
Here are some more thoughts from Zavoral on writing A Season on the Mat, getting up close and personal with Gable, and the possibility of the book being turned into a movie.
The Wrestling Mall (TWM): Where did you get the idea to write A Season on the Mat, and, talk about the steps you had to go through to get clearance to do this.
Nolan Zavoral, wrote A Season on the Mat in a monastery, because he had to get away from work and personal business and concentrate on the book. He began in early June and finished in last August, just making the deadline so the book would be published in time for the NCAAs. In that span, he took off one weekend. Otherwise, he wrote seven days a week, at least fifteen hours a day.
Nolan Zavoral (NZ): I know exactly when the idea occurred to me that Dan Gable's life would sustain book-length nonfiction that became A Season on the Mat. I was sports editor and columnist at the Iowa City Press-Citizen, traveling with the Iowa wrestlers to a dual meet at Oklahoma State. We had a layover at the St. Louis airport. I sat near Gable and noticed his jaw setting hard as he read the front page of the St. Louis Post Dispatch. I asked him what he was reading. He said a story about a rapist loose in the area. We talked. It was then I learned that his sister's brutal murder years before still roiled within him. After that, I saw him with fresh eyes. He was a highly successful coach, who had been a brilliant wrestler himself, but beyond that, he connected with people at very human levels. I left Iowa City in 1985 for a writing position at the Minneapolis Star Tribune, but my goal remained to chronicle Dan Gable's life, as reflected through his final season as Iowa coach. Every year for ten years, I touched base with him before the season began, asking, "Will this be your final season?" And then, when he finally said he was probably getting out, I began making plans to spend as much time as possible in his orbit. This meant that I took unpaid leaves of absence from the paper, that I absorbed a lot of travel expenses before I (a) got an agent, and, (b) landed an advance from a publisher. Through it all, I pursued Gable and the story of his 1996-97 team. He agreed to give me time and access, both to himself and the team. I took full advantage, because I *knew* this was a book. Plus, I was an Iowa native, and a writer. The stars were aligned.
TWM: What was Gable's initial reaction to you wanting to follow the team? Also, what was the initial reaction from the team members, coaches, parents, family and others involved in Iowa wrestling, when they knew you were following the team around?
NZ: Gable's initial reaction was encouraging, although, truth be told, I don't think either of us knew how much interview time this would require. Because I'd covered the team in the 1980s, I knew administrators in the athletic department and others. Gable was generous in introducing me to his team (en masse) and parents. "He's writing a book," Gable would say, and I'd give details. Everyone was receptive. Wrestlers respect hard work: it's in their DNA. I was working hard, so we got along.
TWM: How many hours would you estimate you spent with the team, and how much time did it take to write the book?
NZ:Wow, that's a tough question. I'll estimate that I spent hundreds of hours with the team, doing interviews, attending meets, calling on the phone. As for writing the book, I wrote "A Season on the Mat" in a monastery, because I had to get away from work and personal business and concentrate on this book. I began in early June and finished in last August, just making the deadline so the book would be published in time for the NCAAs. In that span, I took off one weekend. Otherwise, I wrote seven days a week, at least fifteen hours a day.
TWM: Now, ten years later, you wrote an Afterword that is now available for sale. Talk about what that is and where people can get it.
NZ: The Afterword is part of a paperback reprint of A Season on the Mat.available at major book chains like Borders and Barnes & Noble, and at independent stores like Prairie Lights in Iowa City and elsewhere. It's a long Afterword, basically a chapter in itself. I wanted to give a full update of Gable's life in his years away from coaching - his flirtation with Republican politics, his speaking engagements and wrestling camp appearances, all of it - and suggest reasons he jumped back into coaching at Iowa, as Tom Brands' assistant.
TWM: Ten years later, are you surprised Dan Gable is back coaching?
NZ: Not really. He's a consummate competitor -- and nothing buzzes him like preparing a team for a meet. In the Afterword, a guy remarked to me how Gable's intensity showed up even in table conversation about fishing.
TWM: That team had a number of interesting characters and talented wrestlers (Lincoln McIlravy, Joe Williams, Jesse Whitmer, Wes Hand, Mark Ironside, Lee Fullhart, to name a few) who stands out or what stands out most about that team from your time covering it?
NZ: They all stand out to me -- how's that for hedging? But it's the truth. Sure, wrestling is a team sport: if you win, you earn points for your team. Nevertheless, it's individuals who make up the team, who make sacrifices like few other athletes. In the end, their biggest matches are against themselves. McIlravy, for instance. He suffered from migraines, and he and his father resisted Gable's pressure to wrestle through them. Not unrelated was the fact that McIlravy was married and about to become a father. However, McIlravy, as smooth a technician as I've ever seen, went on to win a national title in Gable's last season, and finish 22-0.
A look at the new front and back cover of A Season on the Mat
TWM: Many considered Jesse Whitmer the biggest surprise one-time national champ in NCAA history. Talk about his season from your perspective.
NZ: Gable may have done the best coaching of his career with Whitmer. Whitmer struggled through half the season, but Gable kept him primed, forever calling him the "strongest man in the world." And Whitmer, a fifth-year senior from the Iowa outback who idolized Gable, gained confidence. He peaked during the NCAA tournament, right on time. Iowa's lead-off lightweight, he started the Hawkeyes' avalanche of points each night.
TWM: You spent a lot of time with Gable, got up close and personal with him. Was there ever a time when he intimidated you or you felt you shouldn't be doing this? Why or why not?
NZ: No, I wasn't intimidated by Gable, in part because I never thought he tried to intimidate me. We had disagreements, but I always believed in what I was doing, in bringing to life on the printed page a complex human being as well as an icon throughout Iowa.
TWM: Was there any tricks to writing this book, or did the stories just play themselves out, and you just had to chronicle what happened?
NZ: Believe me, I wish there were tricks to make writing easier. I don't know of any. It's hard, exhausting work. As I told Gable, writers -- the good ones, anyway -- may be as disciplined as wrestlers. And the thing about stories playing themselves out, that's a euphemism for doggedly pursuing stories, being there when important things happened. More work.
TWM: Was there ever any doubt when covering this season that Iowa wouldn't win the national title, and did you ever think what it would have been like if they did lose?
NZ: Iowa had no lock on the national title. True, the NCAAs were held next door to Gable's hometown, but athletic competition is full of twists and surprises. Heading into the tournament, Oklahoma State, which owned a dual victory over Iowa that year, had assumed the favorite's role. I remember sitting on press row before first-day competition, when another writer stopped by to say, "Boy, this'll really zap the book if Iowa loses." Of course, the storyline would be heightened by an Iowa victory, but there were plenty of plots and palace intrigues without it, not the least of which was Gable's situation. Would he quit if he lost? And if he did, who would succeed him? I wasn't worried.
TWM: Can you talk about your interest in wrestling and what sparked an idea for this book?
NZ: I've always been drawn to wrestling, first in high school, where an injury sabotaged what undoubtedly would have been a bench-riding career. In college, a friend and I sneaked into pro matches and followed guys like The Alaskan to drinking establishments. Still later, as a writer, I grew to love the college sport, with its colorful personalities and deep roots in Americana.
TWM: If you were to write another book such as this with today's college wrestling teams/personalities, who would you like to follow and why?
NZ: I'm tempted to say Cael Sanderson: he's a lot like Gable, a college wrestling legend (also at Iowa State), who won Olympic gold and landed a top Division I job, at Iowa State. But John Smith, the Oklahoma State coach, also appeals to me, as does J Robinson at Minnesota.
TWM: What was it like following Tom Brands for a season, and are you surprised he is now the head coach?
NZ: He radiated intensity as Gable's assistant. So did Jim Zalesky, but with Brands, the fire seemed more visible. I could walk into Zalesky's office and flop into a chair and ask, "What's up?" I wouldn't do that with Brands.
Dan Gable
Little did Zavoral - or any other wrestling fan - know that after that 1997 national title, that Gable would be back coaching 10 years later - but this time as an assistant to Tom Brands.
TWM: What type of feedback, response did you get from the wrestlers chronicled in the book? Have you heard much from them?
NZ: Writing the Afterword to "A Season on the Mat," I reconnected with several Iowa wrestlers from the 1996-'97 team. I didn't have to remind them I wrote the book, they remembered, and were generous in their praise. McIlravy wanted to see the paperback version, and I promised to drop one off the next time I was in Iowa City, where he manages a hotel.
TWM: Looking back, and knowing what you know now, do a lot of things that have happened and that are discussed in the Afterword surprise you? Why or why not?
NZ: McIlravy, an Olympic bronze medalist in 2000, seemed happy with his decision to leave wrestling and devote more time to his family. I wasn't surprised: he was always solid in all aspects of his life. But I was surprised to learn that Joe Williams had flopped at the World Trials and had moved his base of operations from Iowa City to Ames. Williams won three national titles at Iowa, and had a physique they don't hand out with diplomas.
TWM: What impressed you the most or surprised you the most about Gable? Are there any misconceptions people might have about him that you saw through with the time spent with him?
NZ: Well, Gable is a man's man and all, but he dotes on his four daughters and, truth be told, is not king of his castle. Wife Kathy holds sway at home.
TWM: I read that there is a possibility this book is being turned into a movie by ESPN, is that accurate, and can you discuss this?
NZ: Well, ESPN Original Entertainment is exploring the *possibility* of turning A Season on the Mat into a movie. Contractually, I can't say much more.
TWM: What actor do you think would play a good Dan Gable? Or, would Gable have to play himself - as in there is no one who could do what Gable does?
NZ: As I was beginning to travel with the Iowa wrestling team, Gentleman's Quarterly magazine ran a cover story on Tom Cruise, in which Cruise, a former high school wrestler, stated his admiration for Gable. I can see it now....
TWM: What did you enjoy the most out of writing this book?
NZ: Researching the Afterword, I met up with Gable at a big high school wrestling camp in Dubuque, Iowa. He gave technique sessions on the mat and spoke to coaches. In his free time, Gable made himself available for autographs. Long lines of wrestlers formed, and many of them had copies of "A Season on the Mat" for him to sign. Gable nodded to me, and told the kids who I was and that they might want me to sign the book as well. I asked one kid if he had read the book. "Just three times!" he said. Those were awfully good moments.
TWM: Any closing remarks, thoughts, comments?
NZ: Throughout the years, "A Season on the Mat" has shown remarkable staying power, which is partly why Simon & Schuster reissued the paperback. I'm grateful that readers -- including a psychologist who said she found the narrative compelling -- have continued to resonate to Gable and his band of wrestlers.
Matt Krumrie can be reached at mattkrum@yahoo.com
Q&A With Nolan Zavoral, Author of A Season on the Mat
Printer Friendly Version
Email this article
12/26/2006 2:30:00 PM
By Matt Krumrie – TWM Freelance Writer
A Season on the Mat is widely considered one of the greatest wrestling books in history. Author Nolan Zavoral wrote the book, which focuses on the 1996-97 Iowa Hawkeyes national championship team. That season is also Dan Gable’s last as head coach of the Hawkeyes.
Now, culminating with this year being the 10-year anniversary of that season, Zavoral has put together an Afterword chronicling the developments of many of the main characters in the ten years since that season. The book has been re-released in paperback and is available on Amazon.com, and at bookstores like Barnes and Nobles and Borders.
The cover, featuring the same intense shot of Gable, looks splashier this time around, with reviewers' remarks sprinkled into the makeup, and with a new Afterword noted on the cover. This story sponsored by:
Omega Sports Products
Get your custom team gear from us!!!
1-800-435-8801
“The Afterword is lengthy, because I had to update readers on Gable's life since he turned the team over to Zalesky, and then last spring, jumped back on board after Tom Brands became head coach,” says Zavoral, who lives in St. Paul and in addition to working as a writer, teaches writing courses at the Loft Literary Center in Minneapolis. “In those nine years away from coaching, Gable considered a run for Iowa governor; lobbied national lawmakers on behalf of the sport; conducted clinics and accepted speaking engagements around the country; had more surgery done on his arthritic hips; worked as an assistant to the Iowa men's athletic director, and kept close tabs on the Hawkeye wrestling team from his roost a floor above the wrestling room.”
Zavoral, a wrestling fan as well as an author, was excited for the opportunity to reconnect with the many who helped make the book possible
“Working on the book again was doubly delightful because my editor was a former high school wrestler (Jack Sallay) on the Eastern seaboard who appreciated both Gable and amateur wrestling,” said Zavoral.
Earlier this fall Zavoral commented on Gable.
“Few know how to peak a team like Gable,” said Zavoral. “(He) continues to fascinate me, as does wrestling.”
Here are some more thoughts from Zavoral on writing A Season on the Mat, getting up close and personal with Gable, and the possibility of the book being turned into a movie.
The Wrestling Mall (TWM): Where did you get the idea to write A Season on the Mat, and, talk about the steps you had to go through to get clearance to do this.
Nolan Zavoral, wrote A Season on the Mat in a monastery, because he had to get away from work and personal business and concentrate on the book. He began in early June and finished in last August, just making the deadline so the book would be published in time for the NCAAs. In that span, he took off one weekend. Otherwise, he wrote seven days a week, at least fifteen hours a day.
Nolan Zavoral (NZ): I know exactly when the idea occurred to me that Dan Gable's life would sustain book-length nonfiction that became A Season on the Mat. I was sports editor and columnist at the Iowa City Press-Citizen, traveling with the Iowa wrestlers to a dual meet at Oklahoma State. We had a layover at the St. Louis airport. I sat near Gable and noticed his jaw setting hard as he read the front page of the St. Louis Post Dispatch. I asked him what he was reading. He said a story about a rapist loose in the area. We talked. It was then I learned that his sister's brutal murder years before still roiled within him. After that, I saw him with fresh eyes. He was a highly successful coach, who had been a brilliant wrestler himself, but beyond that, he connected with people at very human levels. I left Iowa City in 1985 for a writing position at the Minneapolis Star Tribune, but my goal remained to chronicle Dan Gable's life, as reflected through his final season as Iowa coach. Every year for ten years, I touched base with him before the season began, asking, "Will this be your final season?" And then, when he finally said he was probably getting out, I began making plans to spend as much time as possible in his orbit. This meant that I took unpaid leaves of absence from the paper, that I absorbed a lot of travel expenses before I (a) got an agent, and, (b) landed an advance from a publisher. Through it all, I pursued Gable and the story of his 1996-97 team. He agreed to give me time and access, both to himself and the team. I took full advantage, because I *knew* this was a book. Plus, I was an Iowa native, and a writer. The stars were aligned.
TWM: What was Gable's initial reaction to you wanting to follow the team? Also, what was the initial reaction from the team members, coaches, parents, family and others involved in Iowa wrestling, when they knew you were following the team around?
NZ: Gable's initial reaction was encouraging, although, truth be told, I don't think either of us knew how much interview time this would require. Because I'd covered the team in the 1980s, I knew administrators in the athletic department and others. Gable was generous in introducing me to his team (en masse) and parents. "He's writing a book," Gable would say, and I'd give details. Everyone was receptive. Wrestlers respect hard work: it's in their DNA. I was working hard, so we got along.
TWM: How many hours would you estimate you spent with the team, and how much time did it take to write the book?
NZ:Wow, that's a tough question. I'll estimate that I spent hundreds of hours with the team, doing interviews, attending meets, calling on the phone. As for writing the book, I wrote "A Season on the Mat" in a monastery, because I had to get away from work and personal business and concentrate on this book. I began in early June and finished in last August, just making the deadline so the book would be published in time for the NCAAs. In that span, I took off one weekend. Otherwise, I wrote seven days a week, at least fifteen hours a day.
TWM: Now, ten years later, you wrote an Afterword that is now available for sale. Talk about what that is and where people can get it.
NZ: The Afterword is part of a paperback reprint of A Season on the Mat.available at major book chains like Borders and Barnes & Noble, and at independent stores like Prairie Lights in Iowa City and elsewhere. It's a long Afterword, basically a chapter in itself. I wanted to give a full update of Gable's life in his years away from coaching - his flirtation with Republican politics, his speaking engagements and wrestling camp appearances, all of it - and suggest reasons he jumped back into coaching at Iowa, as Tom Brands' assistant.
TWM: Ten years later, are you surprised Dan Gable is back coaching?
NZ: Not really. He's a consummate competitor -- and nothing buzzes him like preparing a team for a meet. In the Afterword, a guy remarked to me how Gable's intensity showed up even in table conversation about fishing.
TWM: That team had a number of interesting characters and talented wrestlers (Lincoln McIlravy, Joe Williams, Jesse Whitmer, Wes Hand, Mark Ironside, Lee Fullhart, to name a few) who stands out or what stands out most about that team from your time covering it?
NZ: They all stand out to me -- how's that for hedging? But it's the truth. Sure, wrestling is a team sport: if you win, you earn points for your team. Nevertheless, it's individuals who make up the team, who make sacrifices like few other athletes. In the end, their biggest matches are against themselves. McIlravy, for instance. He suffered from migraines, and he and his father resisted Gable's pressure to wrestle through them. Not unrelated was the fact that McIlravy was married and about to become a father. However, McIlravy, as smooth a technician as I've ever seen, went on to win a national title in Gable's last season, and finish 22-0.
A look at the new front and back cover of A Season on the Mat
TWM: Many considered Jesse Whitmer the biggest surprise one-time national champ in NCAA history. Talk about his season from your perspective.
NZ: Gable may have done the best coaching of his career with Whitmer. Whitmer struggled through half the season, but Gable kept him primed, forever calling him the "strongest man in the world." And Whitmer, a fifth-year senior from the Iowa outback who idolized Gable, gained confidence. He peaked during the NCAA tournament, right on time. Iowa's lead-off lightweight, he started the Hawkeyes' avalanche of points each night.
TWM: You spent a lot of time with Gable, got up close and personal with him. Was there ever a time when he intimidated you or you felt you shouldn't be doing this? Why or why not?
NZ: No, I wasn't intimidated by Gable, in part because I never thought he tried to intimidate me. We had disagreements, but I always believed in what I was doing, in bringing to life on the printed page a complex human being as well as an icon throughout Iowa.
TWM: Was there any tricks to writing this book, or did the stories just play themselves out, and you just had to chronicle what happened?
NZ: Believe me, I wish there were tricks to make writing easier. I don't know of any. It's hard, exhausting work. As I told Gable, writers -- the good ones, anyway -- may be as disciplined as wrestlers. And the thing about stories playing themselves out, that's a euphemism for doggedly pursuing stories, being there when important things happened. More work.
TWM: Was there ever any doubt when covering this season that Iowa wouldn't win the national title, and did you ever think what it would have been like if they did lose?
NZ: Iowa had no lock on the national title. True, the NCAAs were held next door to Gable's hometown, but athletic competition is full of twists and surprises. Heading into the tournament, Oklahoma State, which owned a dual victory over Iowa that year, had assumed the favorite's role. I remember sitting on press row before first-day competition, when another writer stopped by to say, "Boy, this'll really zap the book if Iowa loses." Of course, the storyline would be heightened by an Iowa victory, but there were plenty of plots and palace intrigues without it, not the least of which was Gable's situation. Would he quit if he lost? And if he did, who would succeed him? I wasn't worried.
TWM: Can you talk about your interest in wrestling and what sparked an idea for this book?
NZ: I've always been drawn to wrestling, first in high school, where an injury sabotaged what undoubtedly would have been a bench-riding career. In college, a friend and I sneaked into pro matches and followed guys like The Alaskan to drinking establishments. Still later, as a writer, I grew to love the college sport, with its colorful personalities and deep roots in Americana.
TWM: If you were to write another book such as this with today's college wrestling teams/personalities, who would you like to follow and why?
NZ: I'm tempted to say Cael Sanderson: he's a lot like Gable, a college wrestling legend (also at Iowa State), who won Olympic gold and landed a top Division I job, at Iowa State. But John Smith, the Oklahoma State coach, also appeals to me, as does J Robinson at Minnesota.
TWM: What was it like following Tom Brands for a season, and are you surprised he is now the head coach?
NZ: He radiated intensity as Gable's assistant. So did Jim Zalesky, but with Brands, the fire seemed more visible. I could walk into Zalesky's office and flop into a chair and ask, "What's up?" I wouldn't do that with Brands.
Dan Gable
Little did Zavoral - or any other wrestling fan - know that after that 1997 national title, that Gable would be back coaching 10 years later - but this time as an assistant to Tom Brands.
TWM: What type of feedback, response did you get from the wrestlers chronicled in the book? Have you heard much from them?
NZ: Writing the Afterword to "A Season on the Mat," I reconnected with several Iowa wrestlers from the 1996-'97 team. I didn't have to remind them I wrote the book, they remembered, and were generous in their praise. McIlravy wanted to see the paperback version, and I promised to drop one off the next time I was in Iowa City, where he manages a hotel.
TWM: Looking back, and knowing what you know now, do a lot of things that have happened and that are discussed in the Afterword surprise you? Why or why not?
NZ: McIlravy, an Olympic bronze medalist in 2000, seemed happy with his decision to leave wrestling and devote more time to his family. I wasn't surprised: he was always solid in all aspects of his life. But I was surprised to learn that Joe Williams had flopped at the World Trials and had moved his base of operations from Iowa City to Ames. Williams won three national titles at Iowa, and had a physique they don't hand out with diplomas.
TWM: What impressed you the most or surprised you the most about Gable? Are there any misconceptions people might have about him that you saw through with the time spent with him?
NZ: Well, Gable is a man's man and all, but he dotes on his four daughters and, truth be told, is not king of his castle. Wife Kathy holds sway at home.
TWM: I read that there is a possibility this book is being turned into a movie by ESPN, is that accurate, and can you discuss this?
NZ: Well, ESPN Original Entertainment is exploring the *possibility* of turning A Season on the Mat into a movie. Contractually, I can't say much more.
TWM: What actor do you think would play a good Dan Gable? Or, would Gable have to play himself - as in there is no one who could do what Gable does?
NZ: As I was beginning to travel with the Iowa wrestling team, Gentleman's Quarterly magazine ran a cover story on Tom Cruise, in which Cruise, a former high school wrestler, stated his admiration for Gable. I can see it now....
TWM: What did you enjoy the most out of writing this book?
NZ: Researching the Afterword, I met up with Gable at a big high school wrestling camp in Dubuque, Iowa. He gave technique sessions on the mat and spoke to coaches. In his free time, Gable made himself available for autographs. Long lines of wrestlers formed, and many of them had copies of "A Season on the Mat" for him to sign. Gable nodded to me, and told the kids who I was and that they might want me to sign the book as well. I asked one kid if he had read the book. "Just three times!" he said. Those were awfully good moments.
TWM: Any closing remarks, thoughts, comments?
NZ: Throughout the years, "A Season on the Mat" has shown remarkable staying power, which is partly why Simon & Schuster reissued the paperback. I'm grateful that readers -- including a psychologist who said she found the narrative compelling -- have continued to resonate to Gable and his band of wrestlers.
Matt Krumrie can be reached at mattkrum@yahoo.com