Kansas rankings

[lkwdsteve]

"I do know that Jason does his homework"

If only AWN would do their homework. That would prevent them from ranking more Kansas wrestlers (5 wrestlers) in top 12 all-class than Intermat does (4 wrestlers).

Couldn't make this comparison earlier of course.

[DartSharkimus Prime]

I spent 7 years in college ... please, no more homework.

[Mike]

Having someone ranked, or even ranked at the wrong place don't mean someone has done their homework. You want specific examples, ask, I will disagree with Jason on occasion, ask him, (Romero Cotton) but it is rare. Between reffing, coaching, and attending as a fan as much as I do, I honestly don't think there are many that know more about where some HS kids are at in this state as much as I do. I have seen, this year, in person, virtually every #1 ranked kid in the state with the exception of 123A, I will see several of them today. I will tell you, whether you like it or not, JB knows his stuff and has a good thumb on it. I will also say Rev does a good job, and in certain areas most others do at some point, although some are far off. I can say regarding PA, I have seen, again up close and personal, and in real life, most of the PA kids who are ranked, no offense at PA likely between them and Ohio, the best two states in the country right now, but I would give the edge to Ohio at lower weights. But I see Kansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma more than them, I wonder why? Fact is, I see Jason Bryant at many of the bigger tournaments, I see others there, it would be nice to meet you, pick this year, Brute Nationals, I'll have another great team there, Jason I think saw most of the kids I had last year. In fact, if keeping score there our team won every classification from Freshman to Senior, plus overall team. National Duals, Jr. or Cadet, Fargo, Southern Plains, even may ref at other FS Greco tournaments this year outside of the Southern Plains. Shucks planning this year on being at the FILA Jr's as well. I know some of those are FS/Greco, but not all are. I watched most of these kids grow up, David Taylor, Logan Steiber, and many others. Over that many years, at certain weights, you tend to get a good feel for kids, even on a national level.

Just this last week for example, in Kansas and Oklahoma, there were a number of non ranked kids who beat ranked kids from most all ranking services, and some of those got beat rather badly. But I would suspect not all the rankers know that, because of no other reason it takes some work, and as JB stated, it isn't the most fun work that anyone does. There will likely be others today that fall into the same category, not just here in the Southern Plains, but across the nation. That's just the nature of the sport.

[lkwdsteve]

"I will tell you, whether you like it or not, JB knows his stuff and has a good thumb on it."

4 comments:

A. Whether I like it or not? My likes and dislikes are not important, but, for the record, I rarely object to positive remarks being made about anyone. Conversely, I DO object to negative remarks that are unearned, unfair, or ignorant. About anyone.

B. I also don't object to questions/issues regarding rankings that are about methodology. It's when they, the questions/issues, wander into MOTIVE (of the wrestling analysts), that I start to get peeved (at posters).

C. I am definitely NOT accusing you of making "unearned, unfair, or ignorant" remarks about anyone.

D. I have never objected to complaints about board persona or defended caustic discourse. In the other thread, I "dodged" kc's remarks, by making some humor ("Who gives a flying leap...") because I couldn't defend them. It is what it is, and that goes under the heading of an "earned" negative reaction.

[maw]

I swear to God, I read this and have no idea where it is going or what it was posted for. Can you tell me what the hell you know about Kansas wrestling? Tell us about what you do know, not about what you don't, otherwise you are wasting your time.

hereby response notice to posts like this from me will be, "huh?" Loosen up, have some fun, take it easy, don't have a coronary.

[lkwdsteve]

"I swear to God, I read this and have no idea where it is going or what it was posted for."

Were those your quotes I posted and wrote responses to, maw?

Answer: No. But it's a free country (and forum) and anyone may insert themselves into conversations not directed to them. I don't mind.
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"Can you tell me what the hell you know about Kansas wrestling?"

Not much, not that your question is relevant. It's what rankers know about Kansas wrestling that is the question (and which of them do homework).

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"Tell us about what you do know"

I've done that a lot of that over the years (it doesn't take long), though not about Kansas per se. I know little about Kansas. Never been there.

But to answer your specific request (since, I assume, it relates to Kansas) here is what I know:

AWN 1-11-07
103
6. Nathan Furches
7. John Fuller (This should read KELLER. My mistake)

112
12. Jordan Keller

125
11. Tyler Caldwell

171
7. Romero Cotton


Intermat 1-03-07
103
11. John Keller
12. Nathan Furches

112
12. Trent Cox

125
7. Tyler Caldwell


Here is what I feel about it:
It surprised me, based upon comments that had been posted in the national rankings thread. I didn't expect to see more Kansas wrestlers ranked by AWN than by Intermat. Since I know little about Kansas, I asked Mike for an explanation. That is what this thread is, you know---a question to Mike, seeking his take. He has given it:

"Having someone ranked, or even ranked at the wrong place don't mean someone has done their homework."

Asked and answered.
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"not about what you don't, otherwise you are wasting your time"

Different strokes. I didn't think I wasted my time. I gained the following information from this thread:

Mike wasn't satisfied.
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I had never really sat down and looked closely at rankings. But the hoopla over AWN and it's author spurred me on to do it this time. I wanted to see if even half of the criticisms were born out by the actual record. THE ACTUAL RECORD. I don't believe they were, but that's my opinion.

I also gained the following information from perusing both sets of rankings (AWNM and Intermat):

A little over 20 percent of the wrestlers in BOTH sets of rankings are from PA and OH. On the surface that seems too high. Is it?

Regarding Intermat vs. AWN, NYers would have a legitimate beef (by their lights).
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"don't have a coronary."

OK. I know Bob, and the crap that has been posted over on themat, from the announcement of the Eds Super 8 through the Ironman seeding, makes one's blood boil. The latest is that Hempfeld pa is not ranked because they canceled on the Ironman. Arrrrrrrrrgh. A coronary may be a possibility.

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"hereby response notice to posts like this from me will be, "huh?"

Noted. Thanks for playing.

[maw]

lkwdsteve said:

"I swear to God, I read this and have no idea where it is going or what it was posted for."

Were those your quotes I posted and wrote responses to, maw?

Answer: No. But it's a free country (and forum) and anyone may insert themselves into conversations not directed to them. I don't mind.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Can you tell me what the hell you know about Kansas wrestling?"

Not much, not that your question is relevant. It's what rankers know about Kansas wrestling that is the question (and which of them do homework).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Tell us about what you do know"

I've that done a lot of that over the years, though not about Kansas per se. I know little about Kansas. Never been there.

But to answer your specific request (since, I assume, it relates to Kansas) here is what I know:

AWN 1-11-07
103
6. Nathan Furches
7. John Fuller

112
12. Jordan Keller

125
11. Tyler Caldwell

171
7. Romero Cotton


Intermat 1-03-07
103
11. John Keller
12. Nathan Furches

112
12. Trent Cox

125
7. Tyler Caldwell


Here is what I feel about it:
It surprised me, based upon comments that had been posted in the national rankings thread. I didn't expect to see more Kansas wrestlers ranked by AWN than by Intermat. Since I know little about Kansas, I asked Mike for an explanation. That is what this thread is, you know---a question to Mike, seeking his take. He has given it:

"Having someone ranked, or even ranked at the wrong place don't mean someone has done their homework."

Asked and answered.
-------------------------------------------

"not about what you don't, otherwise you are wasting your time"

Different strokes. I didn't think I wasted my time. I gained the following information from this thread:

Mike wasn't satisfied.
-------------------------------------------

I had never really sat down and looked closely at rankings. But the hoopla over AWN and it's author spurred me on to do it this time. I wanted to see if even half of the criticisms were born out by the actual record. THE ACTUAL RECORD. I don't believe they were, but that's my opinion.

I also gained the following information from perusing both sets of rankings (AWNM and Intermat):

A little over 20 percent of the wrestlers in BOTH sets of rankings are from PA and OH. On the surface that seems too high. Is it?

Regarding Intermat vs. AWN, NYers would have a legitimate beef (by their lights).
-------------------------------------------

"don't have a coronary."

OK. I know Bob, and the crap that has been posted over on themat, from the announcement of the Eds Super 8 through the Ironman seeding, makes one's blood boil. The latest is that Hempfeld pa is not ranked because they canceled on the Ironman. Arrrrrrrrrgh. A coronary may be a possibility.

--------------------------------------------
"hereby response notice to posts like this from me will be, "huh?"

Noted. Thanks for playing.

Thanks for stepping in, now my point,

#7 AWN Who the hell is John Fuller, he don't exist in Kansas as a wrestler.

Now I also have issue with some of the other rankings but won't go there as noting a wrestler who don't exist should be enough.

[lkwdsteve]

Should read John Keller. That was my typo not AWN's.

If you look at both sets of rankings you will see a John Keller listed in both. I assume he is a wrestler who does exist if he is in both tables of 103s.

It didn't occur to you that that was MY mistake? I probably wrote Keller, originally, anyway and some gremlim got to it.